[The Watcher (pseudonym) and Pastor Lee Dong-hyung in the conversation below are the 10th highest ranking members of the Church of God, and their conversations give us a good idea of what the Church of God thinks about its members]

<Watcher> Pastor, what did you mean when you said it was a murderous act?

<Pastor Lee Dong-hyung> In the church, it's not the number of heads that matters, but whether God is with us. It's the mission of the church to make sure that family lives with strength, vitality, and hope. But right now, the church is killing...

<Watcher> I don't quite understand... Can you even call it murder?

<Donghyung> For example, Kim Joo-cheol preaches, "Abandon your own thoughts." This is a very dangerous sermon. When he tells people to abandon their own thoughts, he is telling them to follow his words. The general congregation is being brainwashed without realizing how cruel this kind of preaching is. If you make people move their bodies without thinking, they become dead people without souls. That's murder.

<Watcher> People who are loyal to the invisible God constantly check their thoughts and make judgments in light of their God-given conscience, but people who are loyal to Kim Joo-cheol/Jang Gil-jae don't seem to have any thoughts of their own because they believe that whatever they say is 'good' because it is God's word. In the past, when our church members committed mass assaults in Daegu, no one thought it was wrong. The moment you believe that it is Mother's will, any action is rationalized.

<Donghyung> That's spiritual murder. Let me give you another example: "The property that the church members have is entrusted to God." Even if a church member sells his house and gives it to the church, Kim Joo-cheol/Jang Gil-jah doesn't thank him. He thinks it's natural because he gave God's things to God. He gave what he was supposed to give. On the contrary, those who don't do that become unsaved pariahs because they love money more than God...

<Watcher> I don't feel sorry for them at all, even if they're in a lot of trouble because they've spent all their money on overseas evangelism. They're not grateful. If you sell your house and go abroad and spend all your money on overseas evangelism for a few years, you're stuck. When I left, I had the 2012 apocalypse in mind, but I came back penniless, and the apocalypse didn't come. I don't care if they're living in a single room for rent and earning a daily wage because they can't get a job. When I hear them complaining, I give them a sermon rebuking them, saying that all the blessings they have stored up in heaven are running away.

<Donghyung> Whenever we meet in the church, we say, "Bless you," but it seems that the members are getting poorer and poorer, and the church is getting richer and richer. I think everyone is mistaken. They think they know, and when they go to the Jokcheon training center, they are proud of the big training center as if it belongs to them. It doesn't belong to them, it belongs to Kim Joo Chul.

<Watcher> You know, all of those things are murder, spiritually speaking.